From: Jan van Steenbergen (ijzeren_jan@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Mon Sep 02 2002 - 16:38:49 EST
--- Padraic Brown wrote:
> Ahem! French kept them for quite a while; and Kerno
> still has a case system. It's not as full or healthy
> as Wenedyk's case system appears to be, though! It's
> declensional system is also quite different. It has
> kept the nominative and oblique; singular and plural;
> masculine and feminine; and the declensions are based
> on a rearranged stem system. [...]
Wow, your declension system is really something! I have two questions, though.
I see there are two different words for "hand", obviously derived from the same
Latin word: "la manus" and "la manuw". Does that mean that the word
simultaneously evolved in two separate directions and your Kerno speakers never
were able to make a choice?
Second question: how did Latin "corpora" evolve to "y chorpuroer" and "y
chorpuroeres"? That sounds like stuttering to me :)
> There's a lot of room for irregulars;
That somehow doesn't surprise me.
> [...] and many words are suppletive:
>
> la fowea y chavuren
> la vowea y chavuren
> (cave)
Is this also the case with "manus" and "manuw"?
[...]
> Wow - neuter. Romanian has kept the neuter. I suppose
> Slavic still has neuter? What cases do W's Slavic
> adstrate have?
Yes, AFAIK every Slavic language has the neuter, which was a major reason for
me to keep it in Wenedyk.
The original Slavic cases are: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
instrumental, locative, and vocative (the latter being as rudimentary as in
Latin and Greek, but nevertheless it survived in Polish and a few others).
I have of course been considering the possibility of introducing more cases in
Wenedyk than the four I actually elected.
For example, I played with the idea of expanding the Latin construction mecum,
tecum, vobiscum etc. into a full instrumental case. However, I was not happy
with forms such childisch-looking forms like "domku", "domuku", "domyku", or
"domorku". At last I decided that it was a bad idea and abandoned it. This
would never have become a real case anyway.
Another possibility would have been the development of the ablative case into
an instrumental. At this moment I even don't remember if I have considered that
possibility, and if so, why I didn't do it. Probably because the ablative has
almost no forms of its own in Latin, reason enough for it disappear :)
And the locative case -i was already archaic in Classical Latin. The only way
to introduce it into W
ubject: Pater Noster in Wenedyk
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Well, it seems to be raining Pater Nosters these days.
Here is mine, at least a preliminary version of it, in Wenedyk:
Pacz noszcz, kwal jesz en cze£u, sãcyfikatu szy ciu nomiê.
Wienirzy ciu reñ.
Fiarzy cia w£ãtac, komód en cze£u sik supier cierzy.
Da nój chodzie noszã paniã kocydzianã.
Je zmyc nój nosze dziebyta, komód je nu zmycymu noszu dziebytorzu.
Je nie enducz nósz en ciêtacioñ, wiec £ybra nosz dzie ma£u.
Nãcz tweje sã reñ je pociestac je g£orza, pier szek£a. Amen.
£ = l-stroke
ã = a-ogonek
ê = e-ogonek
ñ = n-acutus
Laughing allowed.
Jan
=====
"Originality is the art of concealing your source." - Franklin P. Jones
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